MADNESS!!!

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MADNESS!!!

Postby GNCrocks » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:08 pm

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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby Hambone » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:49 am

Another step toward the wussification of America. People are way too easily offended today....
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby upgridiron » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:13 pm

It’s nice to know that everything in Michigan is so rosy that legislators have nothing to concern themselves with other than codifying thought control.

Should this nonsense progress to an actual law, there is an easy fix for it.

1. The schools affected should, of course, officially denounce any affiliation to the “offensive” nickname.
2. No need to pick a new nickname. The school athletic teams will be officially known as the school name (e.g. Escanaba, Gladstone, Marquette, or whatever)
3. Nothing can be done to stop the fans, students, or even the press from using whatever nickname they would like. Certainly, tradition and habit will prevail.

For example: Escanaba athletic teams will officially be known as “Escanaba <fill in the sport>”. However, fans, students and the press are free to continue referring to the teams as “Eskymos” (against “official edict”, of course) should they so desire. It’s a matter of free speech and freedom of the press. As for the “Eskymo” mascot, simply give the face two round blue eyes, dye his shock of hair blonde, and name him “Moe” … a perfectly legitimate name suitable for an individual of any ethnicity. Forever more, he is officially known as “Moe”… a typical Yooper dressed appropriately for an outdoor event taking place in cold weather. And, since Escanaba is commonly known as “Esky”, it would be perfectly legitimate and accurate for fans, students and others to call the mascot “Esky Moe”.
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby yooper power » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:37 pm

Keep waiting it will continue to get worse.
Yooper playoff motto when playing the trolls:"You Take On One Yooper Team You Got Us All"
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby Hueby » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 am

It's been working here in Wisconsin. Many schools have done away with "offensive nicknames, logos and mascots" and many social problems have been virtually eliminated.

We have little drug and alcohol use, less crime, stronger morals and values, more productive people out contributing to society- working and paying taxes, etc. Overall stronger families & more people feeling good about themselves!

Just kidding!

Being 1/2 Scandanavian the only thing I find offensive about Vikings are those dang horns! Get them off those helmets! They didn't have horns!!! (Many didn't even have helmets aka "Beserkers.")

"Warriors" does not just apply to Native Americans.

Also the Scots had some very fierce "tribes" and are very proud of their heritage (like defeating the powerful British). Very proud of their "Highlanders."

I really like the "Esky Moe" plan!
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby GNCrocks » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:37 am

History:
Eskymos (spelled with a Y) was originally a play on words. Escanaba the city, even back in the 1800's was nicked named ESKY. Before HS sports were even a thing, people from Escanaba were called ESKYMOS (its like saying New Yorker).
In the first few seasons of organized sports Escanaba teams actually used the nickname Hilltopers. But other people from other towns would say, we are going to Esky to play the Esky'mos....the name stuck. Years later about 1919, the first "Eskimo" (with an i) log that you see today appeared.

IF push came to shove, Escanaba could keep the name as it is actually spelled with a 'Y', eliminate the smiling person mascot and replace it with the new block "E" that as the map of the U.P. as the center of the 'E", then technically they would be off the hook. As the ESKYMOS, would have nothing to do with ESKIMOS, as the name meaning would actually be "Person from Escanaba" such as New Yorker, Bostonian, etc...

Braves, Maroons, Redmen... Sorry can't help you yet, but Ill look for a loop-hole for you.
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby Hueby » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:54 am

GNCrocks wrote:...

Braves, Maroons, Redmen... Sorry can't help you yet, but Ill look for a loop-hole for you.


Actually the Marquette "Redmen" nickname originally had nothing to do with Native Americans. When Graveraet High School was built around 1920 the superintendent was from Harvard and had the school decked out in Harvard colors-Crimson & White.

They planted bushes that turned red in the fall & red flowers all around & even had huge red curtains in the auditorium. Along with the new bright red bricks constructing the building, Graveraet had such a red glow to it (especially in the fall) they had the nickname "Redmen."

But in time it was assumed the nickname was related to Native Americans. A to-be custodian got permission to paint an Indian head logo on the basketball court. This person had worked for the WPA during the great depression and a similar Indian head drawing was all over signs throughout Goegebic County.

Some years back I posted a more detailed version of this in the history thread.

MSHS has since quietly phased out the modern version Cheiftan logo throughout the school. They offered it for alumni on sports apparel at their spirit store- not sure if they still do.

But now like Menominee they simply used the "Block M." (BTW I always thought Menominee' s "Maroon" nickname was for the color?)

About 6-7 years ago I remember hearing a story where Marquette' s previous AD was mad at the football program because they purchased and put on helmet decals that had the "Block M" inside of a circle, but along with two feathers connected to the circle.

Anyways "Redmen/Redettes" originally had nothing to do with Native Americans, and they have quietly done away with the logo part. I would hope this clears up any future confusion.

On a personal note, I like what Negaunee and Ishpeming have done with nicknames relating to the mining industry. I wish Marquette had done the same- used a nickname relating to the mining, Great Lakes shipping or railroad industry that built the city.

Gladstone and Newberry are probably potential targets.

Yes, where does this stop? You have people out there who freak out over anything involving the "Devil."
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby Tiger » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:35 pm

It is madness! It should be considered an honor to have a sports team named after your ethnicity, heritage or tradition/history.
Sport teams are named in a fashion to represent something strong and powerful. It's a sign of a great respect. I'm not aware of one
sports team that has taken a name in disrespect or in attempt to demean others.

All the names in question are taken out of context by clueless people who have no business being offended by it in the first place.
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby Hueby » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:27 am

For the first time ever, I used the “Search Option” on this site!

Didn’t want to start a new thread. Just an FYI...

The Native American Nickname, Mascot and Logo Issue has again surfaced at MSHS. Apparently there are a couple teachers and an NMU professor who are pushing for the elimination of the “Redman/Redettes” nickname.

Apparently during any type of pep rallies, as the students chant “Marquette Redmen!” this teacher screams “Marquette Racists!”

In current and recent years, students wearing old MSHS logos have been sent to the principal’s office by a certain teacher.

One student wrote how she was accused of being racist by a group of her peers because she wore a Chicago Blackhawks Jersey.

There’s much more- like a few years ago the administration quietly “retired the Chieftain logo” by removing it all over the school. They also quietly removed school records in sports from the gymnasium.

This Monday 6 Jan 20 there will be a big school board meeting with many from the community attending the meeting- which is being moved to the MSHS gymnasium.

So why I am posting this? Few things:

* Newberry, Escanaba and Gladstone could be next. We’ll see what happens at MSHS (Those pushing don’t care about the true meaning of Marquette’s “Redmen”)

* Many angry residents. Aside from potential recall threats, others are threatening “school of choice” to hit the school in the pocketbook.

* Also learned MSHS spent 10K removing the logos. I could be wrong, but maybe this was around when the football program was scheduled 8 games? Anyways point being changing logos cost tax payer money. This could have a ripple effect to the sports budget.
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby JustAyooper » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:35 pm

The only times I could think of changing names are if there’s a clear racist meaning of why it is the school’s mascot or a clear racist term, which clearly isn’t the case. I could also see if fans were making racist remarks or schools they play use racist terms towards them, which I don’t see. I don’t see a reason for their name to change.. it would cost a lot like you had said, but besides that point, what do you do with all the historical things at the school with the word “redman” on it. Like you said above, they got rid of anything that had the chief mascot on it, including things like awards. It’s historically with the school and should not change.
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby upfootball » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:40 am

Hueby... troublemaker! LOL!!

Madness is a good subject line for this.

Today's culture can be tough to deal with. Everyone wants to stick their nose in your business and label you based on absolutely nothing.

It's only going to keep getting worse.

My advice, don't get wrapped up in it. Nothing you can do anyway.

Enjoy the good in life. You know the stuff nobody ever talks about!
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby GNCrocks » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:30 pm

The Redmen are all but a forgone deal now....although there was a Marquette Mining journal poll vote that had the issue at like 5160 - 204 to KEEP the name.

Escanaba may have to eventually change the MASCOT logo, they already have in a way going to the UP Pride "E" but the troublemakers will have a very hard time getting rid of the name...see history of the name above. Which was changed in 1929 from Hilltoppers to Eskymos for exactly the reason above.

Braves and Indians would most likely stay with logo changes...
Last edited by GNCrocks on Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby GNCrocks » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:33 pm

Yes the entire school has just the Block 'M' logo now. The head-dress logo was removed entirely in 2016. From both the gym, and football helmet. There are old banners in Hockey that still have it but new banners were put up last year.


Hueby wrote:For the first time ever, I used the “Search Option” on this site!

Didn’t want to start a new thread. Just an FYI...

The Native American Nickname, Mascot and Logo Issue has again surfaced at MSHS. Apparently there are a couple teachers and an NMU professor who are pushing for the elimination of the “Redman/Redettes” nickname.

Apparently during any type of pep rallies, as the students chant “Marquette Redmen!” this teacher screams “Marquette Racists!”

In current and recent years, students wearing old MSHS logos have been sent to the principal’s office by a certain teacher.

One student wrote how she was accused of being racist by a group of her peers because she wore a Chicago Blackhawks Jersey.

There’s much more- like a few years ago the administration quietly “retired the Chieftain logo” by removing it all over the school. They also quietly removed school records in sports from the gymnasium.

This Monday 6 Jan 20 there will be a big school board meeting with many from the community attending the meeting- which is being moved to the MSHS gymnasium.

So why I am posting this? Few things:

* Newberry, Escanaba and Gladstone could be next. We’ll see what happens at MSHS (Those pushing don’t care about the true meaning of Marquette’s “Redmen”)

* Many angry residents. Aside from potential recall threats, others are threatening “school of choice” to hit the school in the pocketbook.

* Also learned MSHS spent 10K removing the logos. I could be wrong, but maybe this was around when the football program was scheduled 8 games? Anyways point being changing logos cost tax payer money. This could have a ripple effect to the sports budget.
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby Hambone » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:42 am

I can tell you firsthand that this is not an easy process and will only get worse before it gets better. We went through a mascot change last year and went with a new one this year. The process of change divided the community, pitted friends and families against each other and caused a huge distraction at school for the kids. It was handled wrong to begin with, the taxpayers were told that they would have the opportunity to participate in an "advisory" vote to see how the people in the school district felt about changing the mascot. That didn't happen and the school board voted to change the name, resulting in two board members not getting reelected. People got lawyers, threatened to sue, and several decided not to support the booster club, etc. Once the dust settled people were asked to submit new suggestions for a mascot, the staff and most importantly the students got to vote on the new mascot. The kids bought in and were excited to be part of the process, now we are half way through the school year and you don't hear a word about the change. There were some issues with a few teams uniforms, scoreboards needed to be changed but the entire process wasn't that costly. The approach to this wasn't about changing a mascot, it was about rebranding the school. We didn't erase one part of the school's history, it was honored and continues to be honored and now we have moved forward. Change is hard, particularly when you are talking about changing something that is so historically significant to so many people. But trust me, it's not a bad thing!
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby longball » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:59 am

Hambone wrote:I can tell you firsthand that this is not an easy process and will only get worse before it gets better. We went through a mascot change last year and went with a new one this year. The process of change divided the community, pitted friends and families against each other and caused a huge distraction at school for the kids. It was handled wrong to begin with, the taxpayers were told that they would have the opportunity to participate in an "advisory" vote to see how the people in the school district felt about changing the mascot. That didn't happen and the school board voted to change the name, resulting in two board members not getting reelected. People got lawyers, threatened to sue, and several decided not to support the booster club, etc. Once the dust settled people were asked to submit new suggestions for a mascot, the staff and most importantly the students got to vote on the new mascot. The kids bought in and were excited to be part of the process, now we are half way through the school year and you don't hear a word about the change. There were some issues with a few teams uniforms, scoreboards needed to be changed but the entire process wasn't that costly. The approach to this wasn't about changing a mascot, it was about rebranding the school. We didn't erase one part of the school's history, it was honored and continues to be honored and now we have moved forward. Change is hard, particularly when you are talking about changing something that is so historically significant to so many people. But trust me, it's not a bad thing!


The bad thing is giving in to a small minority and forcing change when change is not wanted or needed. Look how moving girls basketball moving to the winter has worked out???? It's still a cluster with attendance down and shortage of ref's. That was caused by a small group of parents. Sometimes, it's better to just leave well enough alone.
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby Hambone » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:56 pm

In our case it was time to change the mascot. I was pretty upset at first, but when I understood everything behind it, I was ready to move on.

The change in the girls basketball season was driven by a small group of parents and AAU coaches who want kids to specialize. They harped on the fact that kids would have more opportunities to be recruited if it was during the winter. Which is totally false for the girls because now they play right in the middle of the college season, when no one is really recruiting.

The referee shortage was inevitable, no one is interested, pay is bad, and who wants to deal with a$$hole fans. There are guys still doing games who refereed when I played in the early 80's. I know guys who are working games 4 nights a week, sometimes doing both the JV and varsity games.
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Re: MADNESS!!!

Postby Hueby » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:36 pm

Been following this closely the past week or so. It has torn many apart up there.

The school board meeting was moved to Graveraet...where the Redman logo originated. The majority of the community wants to retain the nickname. Everyone knows the logo is gone. Even though many (if not the majority) of local Native Americans were not offended by the nickname or logo. One Native American woman got up there and said something like "C'mon, it was the Native Americans who originated the term 'Redskin' to describe ourselves!"

The meeting was filled with NMU students who wanted the nickname changed. This must be a class project? The push is coming from a minority of people- but they have people in the right places in MSHS teachers and MAPS school board. Social media speaking...they were also spying on the people wanting to save the Redmen/Redettes nickname.

What I'm seeing many people feel the school board has already made up their minds. Guess we will see if all come together on a new nickname and logo. Some are still talking of recall elections or voting down millage requests. Lots of emotions flying around right now so we'll see.

Yes it was brought up in the debate how opposing teams may use the nicknames.

Hopefully I haven't crossed the line on forum rules. But just wanted to put this out there. Maybe there are financial struggles to come IDK. But isn't it interesting how logos equate to money too? I know that is why both MTU and "the other college in Marquette" (lol many mad at this college) changed their logos a few years back.

PS- When the fight is eventually over and a new nickname is to come, the popular nickname by the community so far is "Snowflakes."

I think the other schools are safe for awhile unless they become part of the next class's project.
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