Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby Hambone » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:25 am

"Broadminded AD's and coaches" from the West PAC is one of the funniest things I've read in a long, long time! This proposal has a chance to work if AD's and coaches can move past their own self-interests and work together for everyone's needs. AD's and coaches need to get past the tunnel vision of manipulating schedules so they put enough fluff in the schedule to their six wins. It's so obvious who manipulated the scheduling this year just by looking at the crossover games between the Copper and Iron divisions.
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby HSFB Fan » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:23 pm

pondrocket14 wrote:Would be great for GNC to fill their schedules, not sure about everybody else. A lower half Westpac team wouldn't be helped much by playing schools twice their size. Would require nimble scheduling with broadminded AD’s and coaches to align the most competitive teams each year. Seems like a tall task.


Kingsford played Fond du Lac this year....roughly 4X their size.
Menominee played Kaukauna....over 1,100 students...
LL-H (149) was within 4 points of Gladstone (461) with 3 min. left.

Negaunee beat Marquette for their first game on the new turf (35-0?)

It's not a size thing....
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby GNCrocks » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:42 pm

HSFB Fan wrote:
pondrocket14 wrote:Would be great for GNC to fill their schedules, not sure about everybody else. A lower half Westpac team wouldn't be helped much by playing schools twice their size. Would require nimble scheduling with broadminded AD’s and coaches to align the most competitive teams each year. Seems like a tall task.


Kingsford played Fond du Lac this year....roughly 4X their size.
Menominee played Kaukauna....over 1,100 students...
LL-H (149) was within 4 points of Gladstone (461) with 3 min. left.

Negaunee beat Marquette for their first game on the new turf (35-0?)

It's not a size thing....


THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!

sorry couldn't pass it up
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby GNCrocks » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:09 pm

HSFB Fan wrote:What we are doing isn't working....
If we go to this (hats off to the Gladstone AD for putting his name on it) and it doesn't work, we haven't lost anything.

It will fill the stands with some good football games.
GNC Parents will drive to Milwaukee to see their son play, but the non-parent fan probably won't.
...They would drive to Marquette county! They would drive to Calumet!
Fill the stands!!


I could not agree more. I would pay $$$ to go see Escanaba vs. Calumet (vs Iron Mountain vs. Bark River-Harris)
I would pay money to see Negaunee vs. Menominee (vs Negaunee vs. Gogebic)
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby GNCrocks » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:23 am

Another thought:

If you are an Athletic Director or Coach at a larger WestPac school (or hell, ANY school...) and you don't want an opportunity to play Esky, Menominee, Kings,Gladstone & Marquette. YOU ARE DOING YOUR JOB WRONG, and you should resign. Really, Winners want to WIN, they want the ball, they want to go knock a bigger school in the teeth, and when/if they lose winners want to come at them again.

If you are a student athlete in the above mentioned programs and you don't want to play those schools, you don't belong on a football field...go play soccer, join the band, cross country, sit in the stands and cheer the winners who do want to play these games.

There is no perfect solution, but of all the solutions (at least 4-6) I have heard of regarding 11-man and U.P. scheduling this by far is the best I have heard of;
Is it perfect? NO.
Is it better than GNC schools playing each other twice? Yes
Is it better than Iron Mountain vs. Bark River-Harris? Yes
Will some of the smaller schools struggle at first? Possibly? But that's when you need to turn to your coach and say, there are coaches out there who CAN take a these programs and go and WIN this conf. I can name 4/5 people who currently are not coaching, who should be, who could walk into any of these programs and be 7-2 in this conf. They could walk into Manistique with all their problems, be in the playoffs in 2 years and could even want to move up to THIS conf. they are that good. That being said, I am NOT saying there are not coaches in these programs who don't want this or are not good enough to win this conf. There are, there are some great coaches and programs who could win and be competitive in the conf. next season even. But there are also 1/2 who would rather go play Hannaville and get their easy 6 and take the easy way because they don't have the coaching chops or the right attitude to go and play in this proposed conf.

This could ALSO carry over to other sports. Scheduling would be a breeze. Think of Basketball. Home and Home you have 14-16 games out of 20 done. That would still allow for Marquette (class A) to go get 4-6 games with Alpena, TCC, Gaylord ect...to be prepped for Districts.
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby HSFB Fan » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:14 am

How about a GNC school unable to field a JV team...

(Shots fired....ducking for cover....)
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby GNCrocks » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:18 pm

HSFB Fan wrote:How about a GNC school unable to field a JV team...

(Shots fired....ducking for cover....)


Good "Question"...I actually agree with Alex's (Mqt's AD) call to do this. Once and a while you have "classes" with culture that just do not mix with sports or certain sports. This is def. the case with this years Soph class at Marquette. It is NOT a shot at them, they just have other wants/priorities/likes in an odd way that not a lot of players went out for Football; combine this with injuries and it was unsafe to field a team. That being said Marquette, has a good (talent and numbers) Freshman team right behind it. Marquette being Class A, also fields sports (Soccer) and other activities that other schools do not, which really makes them (IMO) a class B type of program.

I get where you were going with this...if it were a trend I get it, I think this was a really odd 1-off.
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby MNYooper » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:30 pm

The elephant in the room is declining enrollments and declining participation in football. Not sure this merger is the answer
to the problem (and if you think about it -- its basically a big divisional system for the UP for 11 man football since all the
11 man programs are in it) but there maybe some configuration of these teams that would work, and as noted might benefit
other sports as well. It's crazy for teams to have to chase over 300 to 500 miles to play a H.S. football game.


Something has to give , the current situation is untenable, and as noted, getting rid of long term traditional
rivalries is not the way to build interest in football!
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby Yooper at Heart » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:15 pm

This may sound blasphemous at first, but why not have some sort of European soccer flavor to the two divisions. If you are below a certain enrollment and you finish in the bottom two of the "GNC Division" you get relegated to the "WestPac Division." The top two teams in the "WestPac Division" then get promoted to the "GNC Division" regardless of enrollment. If those teams do well in the GNC then they stay there. If you are a larger school you do not have the opportunity to get relegated down, but small schools can get promoted up and stay with the big boys if they are successful.

I'm sure that can be tweaked a little bit, but this may be a way to keep the haves and have nots both happy.
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby GNCrocks » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:28 pm

Yooper at Heart wrote:This may sound blasphemous at first, but why not have some sort of European soccer flavor to the two divisions. If you are below a certain enrollment and you finish in the bottom two of the "GNC Division" you get relegated to the "WestPac Division." The top two teams in the "WestPac Division" then get promoted to the "GNC Division" regardless of enrollment. If those teams do well in the GNC then they stay there. If you are a larger school you do not have the opportunity to get relegated down, but small schools can get promoted up and stay with the big boys if they are successful.

I'm sure that can be tweaked a little bit, but this may be a way to keep the haves and have nots both happy.


Amazing Idea, probably one of the most progressive I have heard in a while!...I had a similar thought on this earlier with Iron Mountain and Neguanee being so close in enrollment who would be in, who would be out and would it change from year to year.

WOW what a thought YOOPER at HEART.!
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby yoopernib2 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:45 pm

GNCrocks wrote:
HSFB Fan wrote:How about a GNC school unable to field a JV team...

(Shots fired....ducking for cover....)


Good "Question"...I actually agree with Alex's (Mqt's AD) call to do this. Once and a while you have "classes" with culture that just do not mix with sports or certain sports. This is def. the case with this years Soph class at Marquette. It is NOT a shot at them, they just have other wants/priorities/likes in an odd way that not a lot of players went out for Football; combine this with injuries and it was unsafe to field a team. That being said Marquette, has a good (talent and numbers) Freshman team right behind it. Marquette being Class A, also fields sports (Soccer) and other activities that other schools do not, which really makes them (IMO) a class B type of program.

I get where you were going with this...if it were a trend I get it, I think this was a really odd 1-off.

Come on GNCrocks of course you are going to make an exception for one of the GNC schools they can do no wrong. Just keep putting down the teams in the WestPac you know the ones you want to merge with that's always a good idea!!! And by the way where does Lake Linden Hubbell fit in this cure for the GNC scheduling issues. What no love for the team that wasn't ''afraid'' to play Gladstone??
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby big papa » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:59 pm

Ishpeming and Westwood combined? It would create a Meth monopoly.
"I am not a crook" Richard Nixon
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby yoopernib2 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:34 pm

big papa wrote:Ishpeming and Westwood combined? It would create a Meth monopoly.

Explain please??
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby pondrocket14 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:02 pm

Considering one of the weakest teams in the small school Westpac had Gladstone within 4 points late in the game, this merger might not be good for the GNC.
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby yoopernib2 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:22 am

pondrocket14 wrote:Considering one of the weakest teams in the small school Westpac had Gladstone within 4 points late in the game, this merger might not be good for the GNC.

Ya what team in the WestPac wouldn't have beat Gladstone this year??
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby NeonDeion21 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:30 pm

This year was a poor representation of the GNC. Probably the worst GNC ever. All the teams were down this year, including Escanaba who managed 7 wins because somebody had to win conference games and they had an easy non conference schedule.
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby GNCrocks » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:28 am

NeonDeion21 wrote:This year was a poor representation of the GNC. Probably the worst GNC ever. All the teams were down this year, including Escanaba who managed 7 wins because somebody had to win conference games and they had an easy non conference schedule.


One of the most "troll" non-accurite posts on here in a long long time. You must have been one of those people kicked off the MLIVE forum.

Menominee Down. Check, you're right. But after 20 years of dominance cut them some slack.
Marquette Down. hmmmm, Ill just give you this one out of me being nice as I suspect I may be talking back to kid or special person. Marquette first 2 games were against very good programs. Their one black eye was the loss in week 9 at Menominee.
Gladstone. Not down, growing program who most all of us in the "know" knew would struggle, but actually gave them selves a chance to make the playoffs but needed to win at home vs. a good Escanaba team. Speaking of...
Escanaba. "Easy non-conf. schedule" this is where I question the level of who I am talking to....4 Class A teams and Detroit Loyola? And they go 4-1 with those....Anyone else in the GNC (even in their GOOD years) would have been thrilled to come out 3-2 and happy at 2-3 with that kind of non-conf. schedule.
Kingsford. Good team who played one of the toughest schedules in the STATE. Period.

Thus end-eth the lesson.
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby LukeFSM » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:51 am

NeonDeion21 wrote:This year was a poor representation of the GNC. Probably the worst GNC ever. All the teams were down this year, including Escanaba who managed 7 wins because somebody had to win conference games and they had an easy non conference schedule.


Escanaba beat the brakes off of TC Central whose only other loss was a 7 point loss to TC West who is a District 1 top seed in Division 1. "Easy non-conference schedule" good God. Bet you'd never put your actual name on a stupid comment like that for fear of being tar and feathered
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby NeonDeion21 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:22 pm

Don't get me wrong, they didn't pad their schedule by any means but the teams they played were down this year. Alpena- trash, Petoskey- trash, Detroit Loyola- not good. Gladstone was brutal this year and no GNC team was overly impressive against them. You guys can be super proud of your teams all you want and I mean no disrespect but this is by far the worst season I've seen from the GNC as a whole in a long time.
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby NeonDeion21 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:39 pm

I apologize, I forgot it's 2018 and speaking objectively is not politically correct and is a sure fire way to offend people. :lol:
You ask me to cut Menominee some slack because they have dominated for 20 years- for sure you are right, they are one of the best programs in the history of the UP. Which has nothing to do with the fact that they directly contributed to the overall poor performance of the GNC ...THIS YEAR.
Gladstone- not down? hmmmm
Marquettte- got buried by TCSF. Wanna bet the winner of Calumet/ Westwood is better than -39 against TCSF??
Kingsford had a very hard schedule. I was surprised they lost to Esky and MQT, which is why I say they were down
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby Nerfootball » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:30 am

I cannot figure out what the AD's from the original WestPac were thinking when they entered into an agreement to take all MPC teams into the conference. And now there is talk of taking in GNC teams? This may make sense to some MPC and all GNC schools scrambling to fill their schedules, but not to WestPac schools and probably not WW, Ish, Neg and IM. If AD's could be sued for malpractice this would be a slamdunk case against the WestPac AD's. The WestPac was doing just fine with the teams they had from the western UP and Wisconsin, they were competitive games and had no problems scheduling (and we didn't have to hear about how the conference was weak and being called the WestCrap on this site from adults still living in their high school days). I wouldn't argue that the WestPac wasn't as good as the MPC overall, but we have good kids that play hard and have spirited games to watch. We are also updated facilities (Houghton, Hancock and soon Calumet will all have turf surfaces) and will get more competitive over time. The MPC and GNC don't have strong hockey, Marquette excepted, which affects the WestPac, but that's a whole other conversation. I would love to see the original WestPac back with the Wisconsin teams, if not the WestPac should only include the following teams:
Calumet
Hancock
Houghton
Lanse
West Iron
Negaunee
Ishpeming
Iron Mountain
Gogebic
This alignment would allow Negaunee to play Marquette and IM to play Kingsford as out of conference games. The other schools could put teams such as Hurley and Eagle River WI back on their schedules. As far as Lake Linden goes, I appreciate their history and storied program, but it's time for the coaches and alumni to put aside their pride and allow the kids to compete for 8-man state championships.
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby trautio » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:07 pm

Okay, so what about Westwood? Who does Negaunee play after Marquette? This makes no sense....sorry...the other ideas are better.
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby Nerfootball » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:29 pm

My mistake, I meant to put in Westwood instead of Gogebic. Bessemer (Gogebic co-op) needs to go 8-man along with Lake Linden. Negaunee would play all the other teams listed above, including Westwood instead of Gogebic, and then play Marquette outside the conference.
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby GNCrocks » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:14 pm

gross
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Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby trautio » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:42 pm

so everyone now, except for Manistique? and where are you going with this? How does this help Mqt, Neg, the West-Pac, anyone? I just don't see where you are gong with this...
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